Walter Smith wants an 18 team SPL

[DEXTER]

The top four in England would of course leave to play the top four in italy, spain and germany. Man U v Bayern, Real Madrid or Juve is a much bigger game than v villa, everton, spurs or any of the rest. If you cant see that then i don't know what game you're watching.

The only bigger club in Britain than Rangers and Celtic is Man Utd. We both have a bigger fan base and if we had the access to their TV resources we would put the rest in the shade. Anybody that says different is deluding themselves. We may have wrecked Manchester but we also took 200,000 down there. Name me one other club in Britain(apart from the Celts) that could do the same?

[Eman1703]

your observations regarding european performances are correct mate but celtic and rangers are huge clubs-the reason,simple they have fans the world over.there are celtic and rangers supporters clubs in australia and the far east.thats why they are massive clubs-pish but massive!

[jimmy gomis]

You've done the square root of eff all in europe over the last few years and have dominated a league in which the standard of football would struggle to compare with that which is served up in the English first division.

I think that the quality of football in the SPL outside the Old Firm isn't as bad as you make out. Teams like United, Hearts, Hibs, Motherwell etc would beat most of the teams in the Championship and would certainly not embarrass themselves against the bottom half of the EPL. Some of the games I have watched between teams in the bottom half of the EPL have been shite. It's almost like people have this illusion that because a team is in the EPL they must be amazing - it's totally not the case - unless it's a team that's consistently in the top ten, in my opinion.

[onemanclapping]

your observations regarding european performances are correct mate but celtic and rangers are huge clubs-the reason,simple they have fans the world over.there are celtic and rangers supporters clubs in australia and the far east.thats why they are massive clubs-pish but massive!

Ok, lets assume Celtic and Rangers are granted a place on the EPL. As fans of both teams would you guys be prepared to pay the inflated ticket prices which would come with your place in the EPL? Would you be prepared to make the trek, every second week, to Birmingham, Liverpool, London to follow your team? I don't argue for one second that there wouldn't be a bigger tv audience for those away games but as football fans is that what rocks your boat? Surely football is about following your team week in week out, not watching the game on the telly. You might as well follow Real Madrid.

Ultimately if the OF go, and I for one hope they do, then it'll be make or break for club football in Scotland. It'll either be the making of this league or the end of it, but one thing's for sure to continue in the format in which we are in now we will only see things getting worse.

[jimmy gomis]

but one thing's for sure to continue in the format in which we are in now we will only see things getting worse.

Interesting you say that when United are only 6 points off Celtic and we're not far from the top six split. That's far closer than it's been for years.

[DEXTER]

You've done the square root of eff all in europe over the last few years and have dominated a league in which the standard of football would struggle to compare with that which is served up in the English first division.

I think that the quality of football in the SPL outside the Old Firm isn't as bad as you make out. Teams like United, Hearts, Hibs, Motherwell etc would beat most of the teams in the Championship and would certainly not embarrass themselves against the bottom half of the EPL. Some of the games I have watched between teams in the bottom half of the EPL have been shite. It's almost like people have this illusion that because a team is in the EPL they must be amazing - it's totally not the case - unless it's a team that's consistently in the top ten, in my opinion.

Im sorry jimmy but i think the bottom half of the EPL would destroy the likes of UTD, Hearts and hibs. I also think they would humiliate Rangers and Celtic. These guys are athletes. When Rangers played the likes of Arsenal and Man Utd in the champions league it was men against boys. Ashley Cole and Rio Ferdinand strolled through the games with ease never mind the likes of Ronaldo and Fabregas. I hate to admit it but we would struggle to beat Middlesborough, Newcastle or even Blackpool.

[DEXTER]

your observations regarding european performances are correct mate but celtic and rangers are huge clubs-the reason,simple they have fans the world over.there are celtic and rangers supporters clubs in australia and the far east.thats why they are massive clubs-pish but massive!

Ok, lets assume Celtic and Rangers are granted a place on the EPL. As fans of both teams would you guys be prepared to pay the inflated ticket prices which would come with your place in the EPL? Would you be prepared to make the trek, every second week, to Birmingham, Liverpool, London to follow your team? I don't argue for one second that there wouldn't be a bigger tv audience for those away games but as football fans is that what rocks your boat? Surely football is about following your team week in week out, not watching the game on the telly. You might as well follow Real Madrid.

Ultimately if the OF go, and I for one hope they do, then it'll be make or break for club football in Scotland. It'll either be the making of this league or the end of it, but one thing's for sure to continue in the format in which we are in now we will only see things getting worse.

Oneman i'm not saying i want it to happen but i just think its the direction we're going. Football has been taken out the hands of the fan and into the TV companies pocket. I fear for Scottish football if ever the old firm left. I just think more and more fans would gravitate to where the OF were or even start supporting teams from down south. Human nature is to support who you watch on TV and can follow that way. Sad but true.

[onemanclapping]

but one thing's for sure to continue in the format in which we are in now we will only see things getting worse.

Interesting you say that when United are only 6 points off Celtic and we're not far from the top six split. That's far closer than it's been for years.

In saying worse I'm thinking more of the drop in attendences (and subsequent revenue) rather than the competative nature of the league. I agree this season has been more of a level playing field in terms of teams giving the OF a closer run for their money but I'm not sure that's been reflected in bigger gates at Tannadice or Easter Road and certainly not at Fir Park.

On the subject of the standard of football you only need to look at the teams who are snapping up our more saleable players, Bristol City, Middlesborough, Wigan, Burnley, Southend, Cardiff etc. Dexter I think is correct, even the bottom teams in the EPL and top teams in the Championship would probably be strong enough to coast the SPL championship.

[jimmy gomis]

The Old Firm cannae win eh......when we say we want out of the current set-up and head for england or wherever we get the other teams fans saying "f**k off we don't need or want you"...but when it looks likely that we're not going anywhere and a possible league reconstruction may be the way forward then we get "we can't lose 2 old firm games for our revenue"...it's time celtic and rangers fans, whilst not boycotting games, voted with their wallets...at away games don't buy merchandise, programmes, pies and bovrils....3000-5000 away fans is a probable revenue of £25000+ to other teams..lets see if they can survive without us.....ps, I guess if walter wants, the hierarchy (establishment) will provide!!

I've said before that I personally don't give a monkeys whether the Old Firm are here or not, due to the fact that they have even considered leaving. Talk of boycotts through not buying pies and stuff doesn't bother me either - it's ridiculous. If Celtic and Rangers want to leave a league that is steeped in history, a big part of which is due to them, then so be it. If their pride for Scotland and Scottish football is not strong enough, then be off with you I say. And due to that, then yes, we don't need you. We don't need teams that don't even want to be part of their national league. Threatening to boycott games and not buying away game merchandise just proves that there are some people that don't care about Scottish football and, to be fair, in the long run and to uphold any integrity this nation has left, then maybe the Scottish game is better off without them.

[johnarob]

The Old Firm cannae win eh......when we say we want out of the current set-up and head for england or wherever we get the other teams fans saying "f**k off we don't need or want you"...but when it looks likely that we're not going anywhere and a possible league reconstruction may be the way forward then we get "we can't lose 2 old firm games for our revenue"...it's time celtic and rangers fans, whilst not boycotting games, voted with their wallets...at away games don't buy merchandise, programmes, pies and bovrils....3000-5000 away fans is a probable revenue of £25000+ to other teams..lets see if they can survive without us.....ps, I guess if walter wants, the hierarchy (establishment) will provide!!

I've said before that I personally don't give a monkeys whether the Old Firm are here or not, due to the fact that they have even considered leaving. Talk of boycotts through not buying pies and stuff doesn't bother me either - it's ridiculous. If Celtic and Rangers want to leave a league that is steeped in history, a big part of which is due to them, then so be it. If their pride for Scotland and Scottish football is not strong enough, then be off with you I say. And due to that, then yes, we don't need you. We don't need teams that don't even want to be part of their national league. Threatening to boycott games and not buying away game merchandise just proves that there are some people that don't care about Scottish football and, to be fair, in the long run and to uphold any integrity this nation has left, then maybe the Scottish game is better off without them.

Jimmy I am not for the old firm leaving Scotland, I was only pointing out the hypocrisy that is evident in a vast majority of fans of every other club in Scotland. I do not think the day will come when the OF will be pying their trade elsewhere in terms of leagues, they may well be included in a radically evolved european league that would operate in conjunction with domestic leagues.

But the league needs to change to fuel the passion of football fans, it is almost dead on it's feet the now.

We need a bigger league, promotion/relegation/play-offs....we need to get the reserve league back and we need to find a soloution to ensure that more Scottish kids can get the chances that we all want.

That was what I was getting at though, if we pursue non-scottish routes the other fans say "f**k-off" but WHEN the league reconstruction means only 1 home game against Celtic and Rangers, we get the hypocrites, including chairmen and ceo's, saying the lost revenue from the othe 2 home games could be crippling.

I don't actually buy into this, if the product on the pitch is good enough and the more teams involved in winning and fighting relegation can be increased then the fans will turn out, surely 1 home game against Celtic/Rangers with a full house is better than the 2 games currently on show where empty seats can be spotted a mile away?